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  Transcript from 60 Minutes, CBS,
November 23, 1997.
Taking On Disney
reported by Leslie Stahl
(Stahl sits in a chair in studio, talking, the
standard 60 Minutes "magazine" background behind her, this of the
stylized word "Disney" with a shadow of a cross over it, all under the title of
the article.)
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The
All-American, family-loving, Bible quoting, Southern Baptist Convention, the nation's
largest Protestant denomination, and the Walt Disney company, the world's largest producer
of family friendly programs and products. Seems like a match made, well, in heaven. But
last June, delegates to the Southern Baptists Convention's annual meeting voted to boycott
Walt Disney. |
(Switch to a man speaking, grossly obese with a very
bad rug or combover haircut, looking halfway between Rush Limbaugh and Chris Berman of
ESPN.)
Land |
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They are
pushing a Christian-bashing, family bashing, pro-homosexual agenda. |
(Pull back to see the room, Stahl facing the man,
her back to the camera.)
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Richard
Land is president of the Southern Baptists Convention's ethics and religious liberty
commission. |
(Close up on Land again.)
Land |
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You need to
understand that when you take your money, and you go to the theme parks, and you rent the
animated features, or you go to the animated features, you're helping to subsidize
material in other venues that is going to be an attack on your values and your beliefs. |
(Switch to another interview clip, this with Michael
Eisner.)
Eisner |
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Well, that's
ridiculous. We're not pushing any agenda. |
(Pull back again to see Stahl talking to Eisner.)
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Michael
Eisner is CEO and chairman of the Walt Disney Company. |
(Close up of Eisner again.)
| Eisner |
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We are pushing,
in our corporate marketplace, tolerance and understanding, expansiveness, uh, we are
totally onto an ethical compass, a moral compass. |
| Stahl |
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Now why do you
think that the Southern Baptists have targeted Disney for this boycott? |
| Eisner |
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I think we're
large, and when somebody attacks us, it gets their agenda into the news. |
(Back to Land interview.)
| Land |
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Disney is not
Mom and Dad's Disney, they're not Mr. Disney's Disney anymore. Uhh, they have moved over
to the other side of the spectrum. |
(Scene of Land working in his office.)
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From
Land's office in Nashville, come suggestions on how to avoid Disney theme parks. Disney
retail stores. Disney's ABC Television. Disney magazines. Disney record companies. Disney
sports franchises. And Disney movies. |
(As Stahl talks, a background of Disney's properties
are shown while the names of the Disney's parks worldwide scroll up the screen. Then
a clip of the little mermaid runs while Stahl resumes interview with Land.)
| Stahl |
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So what was
wrong with "The Little Mermaid"? That's a sweet little movie. |
(Closeup of Land.)
| Land |
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Well, I haven't
seen it. Um, the, uh, I am told, from those who have seen it, and who have watched it
carefully, that there was the suggestion that, uh, a clergyman became sexually aroused
while he was performing a marriage ceremony. |
(Another clip of Little Mermaid, this time of the
marriage ceremony. The supposed erection is clearly shown to be the clergyman's right
knee.)
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The
allegedly offending bulge goes by in less than a second. But if you were to slow down a
few frames of this scene, you might think the preacher was indeed more than happy to see
Ariel. |
(Pull back to see Eisner and Stahl watching the
scene.)
| Stahl |
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There! Right
there, right there, right there, okay. |
| Eisner |
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Well, first of
all, it's completely untrue. You know it's untrue, I know it's untrue, we've gone back to
the, you know... |
| Stahl |
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(interrupts)
What is it? |
(Close up of the preacher's knee during the
ceremony.)
| Eisner |
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It is clearly
his knee, everybody knows it's his knee, it's just people spending too much time looking
for things that aren't there. |
(Scene of Pocahontos singing in a canoe.)
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The
Southern Baptists also say Pocahontos is an example of Christian bashing. |
(Closeup of Land.)
| Stahl |
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Now what was
the problem with Pocahontos? |
| Land |
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Well, it's
another example of, of how they twist history. If you'll go into the rotunda of the
capital, you will find that Pocahontos was baptized as an orthodox Christian. Disney does
not want to have positive portrayals of orthodox Christians. |
(Closeup of Eisner.)
| Eisner |
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Because I'm on 60
Minutes I have to act... proper, and... not get crazy and excited and... annoyed, but
that is just ridiculous, I mean, Pocahontos, I think, is one of the most pro-social movies
made in the 75 years of the history of the Disney company. It's about an American legend,
it's about a native American, it's pro-environment, it's about the Earth, it's about
respecting one another. By the way, she didn't become a Christian in the legend until
after our story ended. |
(Eisner fidgets, holding in obvious frustration.)
| Stahl |
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Do you at least
see their point of view, do you, do you understand, or do you just say, "Wow, that's
nutty..." |
| Eisner |
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(pauses) In
private or in public? |
| Stahl |
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On 60 Minutes.
Well, obviously anything you say... |
| Eisner |
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(laughs) On 60
Minutes I say it's uh... everybody has a right to criticize and uh... |
| Stahl |
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(interrupts)
And in private you say "Wow, that's just nutty..." |
| Eisner |
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Well, on
Pocaho... No, we don't do everthing right, and we make mistakes, and we do inappropriate
things, and a company with 115,000 employees is not flawless. But when somebody says
Pocahontos is anti-Christian, or anti-Jewish, or anti-Black, or anti-Native American, I
say, inside, deep down... they're nuts, they really are. |
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Nuts?
Well, it's not just the Southern Baptists. |
(Scene of anti-Disney rally.)
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Other
conservative groups, like the American Family Association, and the Catholic League are
also boycotting Disney. |
(Switch to a scene in a family home.)
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And,
Southern Baptists like William and Dawn Pate agree. |
(Closeup of Dawn Pate.)
| Pate |
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The videos,
those are one of the big things that we watch in our home, and our children love them. |
| Stahl |
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So you stopped
that. |
| Pate |
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Yeah... |
(Switch to Dawn Pate tending to her infant son.)
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Denomination
leaders have calculated that if only one million of the millions of Southern Baptists like
Dawn Pate withhold just $100, Disney is out $100 million. |
(Back to room view of both Pates and Stahl.)
| Pate |
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I don't know
who else is boycotting Disney. For us, personally and morally, this is a stand we wanted
to take, to teach our children, to set an example for them. |
(Switch to view of Disney World, Florida, then back
to the Pate home, quick images of the two elder children on screen.)
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But
the Pates live in Kissimmee, Florida, a stone's throw from Disneyworld, which their
children, 10 year old Travis and 14 year old Leah, love to visit. |
| Leah |
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I go to Disney
a lot, um... it's a happy place to be at. |
(View of Leah doing her homework.)
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But
she doesn't go to Disney World anymore. |
| Stahl |
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Do you get any
grief? Because you're boycotting? |
| Leah |
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Um, there was
some girls at my school, and I was telling them that I was boycotting Disney, and they
didn't really understand, and I explained, and they still didn't really understand, and...
they don't... they don't see where I'm coming from. |
| Stahl |
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(to Travis) Do
you support that? |
| Travis |
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Yeah... |
(The boy is noticeable indecisive in the presence of
his family, as though he does not want to answer the questions or believe the answers he
gives.)
(Travis almost shakes his head "no," but
stops himself.)
| Travis |
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Um... |
| Stahl |
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You're not
sure. |
(Travis looks away from Stahl.)
| Travis |
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Um... like, we
can live without going for awhile, and stuff, but, um... it's just that, it was a lot of
fun when we went too, and I had a lot of fun rides. |
(Travis only looks at Stahl again after he stops
speaking.)
(Switch to scene of person in Mickey Mouse costume at a park greeting a guest.)
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So
it isn't easy boycotting Disney, but the Pates and the other boycotters believe that
Disney is encouraging the wrong values. |
(Switch to Stahl and Land walking toward the
camera.)
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And
nothing upsets them more than what they see as Disney's promotion of homosexuality. |
(Shows a scene from Ellen where Degeneres
and Laura Dern are talking.)
| Ellen |
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I was so afraid
to tell people, I mean I just... Susan... (into an open microphone) I'm gay. |
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Ellen
Degeneres' coming out on ABC last season offended the Southern Baptists. They say Disney
owns ABC TV, and should have intervened. |
(Back to Eisner.)
| Eisner |
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That was her
choice, and ABC's choice, and I think has been very well done... |
| Stahl |
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But what about
the complaint that it's no longer just a show where a gay person is in it, but it's a show
now that is promoting the homosexual lifestyle. She kisses a woman on the air. |
(Shows Ellen clip where she kisses another
woman.)
| Ellen |
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I'm new at
this, so I-I don't know the do's and don'ts and the signals... (her female date kisses
her) |
(Back to Eisner.)
| Eisner |
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Well, first of
all, we made sure we moved it from an 8:30 time period to a 9:30 time period. |
| Stahl |
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So you were
sensitive... |
| Eisner |
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Well, to the
extent it makes people uncomfortable, or we feel there is something in it that we should
warn parents about, that maybe, against what they believe in, we put an advisory on it.
Uh, as long as it remains a tasteful program, as any other program has to be a tasteful
program on ABC... |
| Stahl |
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Now, that's a
good question, is it tasteful to have two women kissing on television? |
| Eisner |
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(long pause) It
didn't offend me... does it make some people uncomfortable? Probably. Did we put an
advisory on it? Yes. Would we in the future? I don't know. At the same time, even for the
Disney company, on a non-Disney branded show, I would be hard to ask ABC, either in their
news division, or in their public relations division, or in their entertainment division,
to cancel or edit something out that was... uh, mature. |
| Stahl |
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When you put
the advisories on, are you in any way responding to this boycott move, or the Christians
who are sending letters and putting ads on the air? |
| Eisner |
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No. |
(Scene of Disney park.)
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Disney
has been sensitive to the tastes of its Christian audience, it has officially sponsored
"Nights of Joy" for fifteen years... sold out celebrations of Christian music. |
(A Christian rock group is playing on a stage;
switch back to the set where Stahl and Eisner sit.)
| Stahl |
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Let me show you
another tape. This is Disney World. This is "Gay Day" at Disney World. And, you
see men, just mingling with everybody else, holding hands... |
(First Stahl and Eisner are seen watching the clip,
then the clip is shown full screen, of "Gay Day" at Disney World.)
| Eisner |
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The homosexual
organizations arrange that day themselves; we do not put signs up that say "No Blacks
Allowed," "No Jews Allowed," "No Homosexuals Allowed." As long as
they are discrete, and whomever our guests are handle themselves properly, are dressed
properly, they're welcome in our doors, and I think it would be a travesty in this country
to exclude anybody. |
(Scene of a Disney park.)
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And
that's why, he says, Disney gives health benefits to the partners of gay employees. It's
something a thousand other American companies and colleges provide, but Southern Baptists
nevertheless find it repugnant. |
(Back to Stahl and Land.)
| Stahl |
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What is the
convention's view of homosexuals? You don't like homosexuals? |
| Land |
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We love
homosexuals, we're commanded by the lord to love everyone, including homosexuals. |
| Stahl |
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So why all
this... |
| Land |
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We detest
homosexuality, as does the bible. As does God... |
| Stahl |
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But then why
deny them health benefits? |
| Land |
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We're going to
deny, or do what the best we can, to deny the normalization of a lifestyle that we believe
is abnormal, deviant, unhealthy, and dangerous. |
| Stahl |
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Well, they say
they're just trying to promote
tolerance. |
| Land |
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You know, when
they say, as one of the producers of Ellen did, they feel they will have
accomplished their purpose if, uh, one teenager feels more comfortable about their
sexuality. Uh, it's not ABC's job to help children feel more comfortable when they have
questions about their sexuality, and we're exercising our right to protest it. |
(Switch to views of a large baptist church, that of
Jim Henry.)
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So
is the boycott working? Turns out, most Southern Baptists are not supporting it. In a
recent independent poll, 55% of Southern Baptists disagreed with the Disney boycott. And
the Reverend Jim Henry is one of them. |
(Henry speaks.)
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Pastor
Henry, once president of the South Baptist Convention, preaches at the First Baptist
Church in Orlando, a mega-church in the shadow of The Magic Kingdom. |
(Henry speaks.)
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Hundreds
of his members work at Disney, some even gave him this warning: |
(Henry is quoting or paraphrasing church members.)
| Henry |
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"You know,
if you all gonna do this, if this is what you're about, don't invite me to church anymore.
I don't want to hear about it. And anything you say, I'm not interested in, if this is
what you're about." |
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So
in his weekly televised service, Jim Henry told his parishoners he would not support the
resolution because it is difficult to manage, because the bible speaks nothing of
boycotting, and because Jesus wouldn't do it. |
(Stahl and Henry sitting in the church rows.)
| Stahl |
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Now is it true
that your sermon is carried on an ABC station? |
| Henry |
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Yes, we've been
with them 25 years as an ABC outlet, and uh... |
| Stahl |
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No, but if
somebody in your church wants to support the boycott, they can't watch you then. That's
what it would mean. |
| Henry |
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That's exactly
what it would mean. If I did the boycott, we'd have to say, "ABC, we're off".
And I couldn't do that when there are thousands of people we know we're reaching. |
(Scene of Henry in church interacting with members.)
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Reverend
Henry and other Southern Baptists say they have made overtures to Disney, asked for
high-level meetings, but the company has not responded. |
(Stahl and Henry sitting.)
| Henry |
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It comes across
as being arrogant, when you got millions of people with deep concerns, and there's no
response, or very little response... |
(A letter from Disney to the Southern Baptist
Convention is shown, then Stahl holding the letter in front of a wall of Disney
merchandise.)
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But
Michael Eisner says he did respond in this letter, in which he explains that Disney is
trying to promote tolerance and compassion, and he tells the Southern Baptist Convention,
"I hope we can be patient with one another." And there was one meeting between
boycott representatives and a Disney executive in Washington, DC, but it didn't go well. |
(Back to Eisner's office.)
| Stahl |
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Would you sit
down and meet with, face to face, a group from the Southern Baptist Convention to talk
about these issues? |
| Eisner |
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I will meet
with anybody, at any time, when it is... presented in a rational, and non-media hyped way.
So my answer, is absolutely. |
| Stahl |
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Is the boycott
having any affect? |
| Eisner |
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Well, you've
got me here on 60 Minutes trying to respond to it, so to that extent it has some
affect. It hasn't had a financial affect, we've never done a... |
| Stahl |
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Has it? |
| Eisner |
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No. |
(Scene of Disney World.)
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The
Southern Baptist Convention plans to continue the Disney boycott for years and years, and
claims it will build momentum. |
(Back to Eisner's office.)
| Eisner |
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I think we're
the wrong... the wrong group to go after, but the one thing that's great about this
country is that they have a right to do it, and they're doing it the right way. They have
a right to do letter writing campaigns, they have a right hold back their wallets, they
have a right not to go to our property. I love that. I respect that. |
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